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August 04, 2004

The ongoing saga of my roof

Well one half of the tag team returned to our humble abode last night to meet with us and disclose the 'bottom line' for his proposal on replacing our roof. Now I had met this man last week, I knew he was a 'salesmen' and could talk the ear off of a dead donkey but I knew I was in the shit when he arrived and opened up one of his notebooks for a flip chart presentation. An effin Powerpoint style flip chart presentation IN MY KITCHEN, I see these every day in work, lord knows I don't ever want to see one in my kitchen. I hadn't even had a cocktail yet, nor supper, I knew we were in for a l-o-n-g night.
He produced a thick navy blue folio with our name and address on it. Colour print outs of the photos he had taken, copies of the roofing trade organization 'white papers' for ventilation, ridge vents, roofing pitch installation rules, etc.
He flipped through the book of licenses, insurance certificates, testimonials and the pretty pictures of major jobs they had done. I could see husband's eyes beginning to glaze over. My husband, the man who can wax lyrical for hours to me about the differences between various substrate metal types and how much carbon materials cost and the intricacies of how to build a machine to manufacture semi-conductors. That man looked like he was wishing the Al Queda would invade just so this man would finish his spiel and get the F out and we could have a big fat alcoholic drink.
The longer this went on, the more I could see the dollar signs click up in my head. Like an old fashioned cash register I heard the ching ching, ching ching as each page of his presentation passed.
Not only was he giving us this presentation, he would go off on tangents, prefacing each one with 'Forgive me for going off track, I'll keep this brief..' while he described his house, former clients, pop warner football, his kids, etc. I'm not sure if the ploy is to make you feel as if they are becoming your friend and not just the roofing salesman or if it is to guilt you into the fact that he has now spent so much time on you and your proposal that you just couldn't refuse to sign on the dotted line out of guilt.

Now I want to share with you how husband and I felt after this event. I want you to picture what we were both thinking when around 9:30 (he arrived at 6:30) he FINALLY got to the actual proposal part of this and we saw that dotted line.


Strip off two layers of asphalt shingles and dispose of them.
Ice and water shield for 6 feet instead of 3, ensuring that fascia boards are wrapped.
Replace underlayment paper.
Nail down all the loose roofboards (roof is very bouncy).
Redo the flashing on 1 of our chimneys.
Spray water shield on both of our chimneys to prevent water seeping into the brick.
He didn't like the way the mason did one of our chimney caps so he wants to pull it off and reseat it so it has weepholes for drainage. The other chimney is okay as it has a huge vent fan on it.
Replace the two skylights in my kitchen, including screens and a shade.
Put in a roof ridge vent (we currently have none)
Take the vinyl siding off of the soffets and carve in a channel for ventilation and replace with better vented vinyl covering.
Since my kitchen has tongue and groove board and no true ceiling inside he knows it will be a very messy, dusty job, he would install some sort of plastic shield in the kitchen to keep it as clean as possible.
Possibly install R30 insulation board (6 inches thick) outside our kitchen roof under the shingles in order to put in some insulation and then put new fascia boards.
Replace shingles with 50 year lifetime (non pro rated) asphalt/fiberglass shingles.


I want you to guess what it would cost to do this to my tiny 1,400 sq. foot roof area....are you ready?
Think of a number in your head, cause I bet it won't be what we saw.

$35,000 US dollars.

We told him that pencil better get really FUCKING sharp before he calls us again.

We drank a whole FUCKIN bottle of wine after he left.

August 4, 2004 | Permalink

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Comments

Wow! You must look really rich. Not to worry, I'll do it for you for a lot less. Have I mentioned that I have a staple gun now? I'll even bring my own staples. Mrs McMuffin will not let me buy a Power Book, so I'm afraid I can't provide you with a Keynote/Powerpoint presentation. This is great, I can now tell her that I NEED one for work.

I wouldn't have used him on principal. Three hours to tell you how much he is going to charge. That is madness. I just can't be bothered with that stuff. It drives me nuts. It is all based on us being too polite to tell them to fuck off.

My final thought, do you think it would be cheaper to take a few night classes and do it yourself?

Posted by: mr mcmuffin | Aug 4, 2004 11:50:29 AM

Part of the problem is the town we live in is a wealthy town. While they are talking to you the glean out all sorts of tidbits with those open ended sentences like ...'blah blah blah...where did you say you worked again? Oh really. And what do you do there?'
I try to let out as little as I can without seeming Rude.
You are right about the polite thing. Had we been ruder we would have told him to piss off and show us the numbers, screw your presentation.
Roofing is NOT something I would under take, nor would husband. Heights, ladders, asphalt, lugging hundreds of pounds of shingles up on a roof, how to dispose of the stuff yourself. No way, no how. Tiling, carpeting, painting, lanscaping no probs. Roofing. Nope.

Posted by: jo | Aug 4, 2004 12:20:36 PM

$35,000?!?!?!?!

Did you at least let him know that the estimate was FIVE TIMES higher than the other one?

Posted by: Brian | Aug 4, 2004 12:31:00 PM

We told him that and we told him that we will take care of insulating the inside of the kitchen ceiling ourselves. We also sugguested that we would buy our own skylights and have them there and ready instead of taking their markup. He is going to revise his numbers but thinks they won't come down below $20,000 even with those revisions.
We are waiting to hear from estimate number 3, hopefully today.
At this point I am starting to find this whole thing just a ridiculous game of 'How much can we get you to pay' and 'How much can we scare you that the *other* guys will do a crap job'.

Posted by: jo | Aug 4, 2004 12:34:07 PM

Egad! Why don't you just add a new room to your house for that and get the roof thrown in by the contractor?

Posted by: Karan | Aug 4, 2004 1:11:23 PM

I've been wondering for a long, long time what 'egad' means. Karan, can you help?

Jo, that sounds like a ridiculous amount of money. Would it be cheaper to contract someone based in a smaller town somewhere outside Boston, perhaps?

Posted by: David (TEFL Smiler) | Aug 4, 2004 3:36:26 PM

During those 3 hours know what I would have been doing?

Training Zoe the phyco dog to bite his nuts off !!!!!!!!

You are a much better person than I. I have thrown people out of my house for a lot less.

Remember you will probably get the best price from the person who spends the least amount of time in the beginning.

It's not rocket science, asphalt shingles and nails

Posted by: P | Aug 4, 2004 4:12:24 PM

*giggle* Well, you know he wasn't a 'dog person' and that of course meant Charlie spent the whole night trying to nudge his nuts or get in his lap. It was rather amusing. I just can't support a non-dog guy with 3 cats.

Posted by: jo | Aug 4, 2004 5:13:17 PM

$35,000 is ridiculous.

His calling you back to say he could revise it down to $20,000 on the skylight markup and the insulation means he's ripping you off.

Don't even take his next call.

Posted by: carpundit | Aug 5, 2004 8:32:23 AM

Jaw. Scraping. Floor.
You were way more polite than I would have been.
Wow. (still stunned)

Posted by: Lisa | Aug 5, 2004 9:07:58 AM

That's insane. The sad thing is, in your area, they probably drop numbers like that all the time and people don't even bat an eye.

I have one suggestion, though one that you may or may not like/consider. You have a vocation school in your relative area. In my experience, these "students" are very good (they usually send seniors and super talented juniors out - with teachers who are former professionals in the field). You get the same quality work for the cost of supplies. They are usually dying to get their students out in the field. (And, often, local companies employ these students during their co-op weeks anyhow, so you may have some working on your house and not even know it.)

In the town I grew up in, the students used to build houses that then sold, in that suburb, for *well over* a quarter million. They'd get the carpentry ones in to build, the electrical in to wire, the plumbers in, the masons, etc.

If you're willing to take a small leap and can wait until September, it might just be at least worth a phone call?

Posted by: Kathleen | Aug 5, 2004 10:19:38 AM

I am a roofing contractor and have just been laughing my a$$ off. If this project has not been completed, may I offer a bit of advice: 1. Use a contractor. Youth organizations, firemen, and out-of-work painters all need money - make a donation. 2. Insist on hand nailing. You don't care why, just trust me. 3. Insist on seeing copies of insurance binders. Most roofers fake Worker's Comp by insuring a secretary or spouse. Liability Insurance is pricey - check out the coverage. One injury and you will have a business partner for life. 4. Trust your insticts. If the guy has moist cheeks (pretty descriptive for a roofer, eh?), find another. 5. Be present when the job is in progress....just in case they decide not to perform everything in that pesky little contract. 6. NO MONEY IN ADVANCE!!!! Pay only on completion. If they do not have credit, don't use them. You are welcome.

Posted by: albert morris | May 4, 2005 12:04:27 PM

Brian this is kind of an interesting little story about a roofing saleman and his customer...kind of funny...but good to know what to avoid and what to do...hope all is well let me hear from you...Love, M

Posted by: Brian | Oct 17, 2005 5:41:45 PM

Lots of work, eh? Installing shingles isn't exactly easy. But the final product looks beautiful. And when there is a bit of a problem, you can replace a few shingles without tearing the whole roof apart. Full roof replacement is usually pricey. But $35,000 is shocking. Better get a second opinion about that roof.

Posted by: Lino Kosters | Oct 25, 2011 3:39:06 PM

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